How will you change the 100th anniversary of the first issue of "Bungei Shunju"? Hiroshi Fujiwara vs Manabu Shintani "Ultimate Chat" vol.1
A dialogue project between Hiroshi Fujiwara and Manabu Shintani is back. From the brand theory to the emperor system, the web magazine "Ultimate Chat", which talks about what the two of us are interested in now, is also published this time. This interview is brought to you by Ring of Colour in cooperation with JBpress autograph. In the first part of the ”We will deliver it twice in collaboration with. In vol.1, about the challenge of Shintani who became the editor-in-chief of the magazine "Bungei Shunju" celebrating its 100th anniversary, and the market called NFT where Fujiwara entered. Enjoy an unpredictable talk with a photo of photographer Yoshihiro Tatsuki.
Photo_Yoshihiro Tachigi Edit & Text_Eisuke Yamashita, Mio Koumura
■ Reunion for the first time in a year, each2021
Shintani: Well, it's a luxury interview to have Yoshihiro Tatsuki take a picture today. Isn't this the end for today (laughs)? Even so, I will meet Mr. Fujiwara for the first time in about a year. What was the final year last year?
Fujiwara: It's never been the case for me, but I never went abroad and spent all my time in Japan. I wondered if there was something wrong with it, but nothing changed in my life or work.
Shintani: But you're still actively collaborating with overseas brands such as "BVLGARI" and "Loro Piana", right?
Fujiwara: Well, there are many projects that have been in progress for some time. However, depending on the brand, there are jobs that I never went to the company, did not meet the president, and completed the work only by exchanging zoom with the staff. Even so, I thought that the way I work wouldn't really change from now on. How was Mr. Shintani?
Shintani: I became the editor-in-chief of the monthly "Bungei Shunju" and it changed dramatically. "Weekly Bunshun" is, in a sense, a destructive or critical medium. On the other hand, I understand that "Bungei Shunju" is not good, but what should I do from now on? It is a medium that makes a constructive transmission. Is it exactly "build from scrap"? That's why I feel comfortable using muscles that are completely different from what I've used up until now. I also thought that the way of movement and work like "Weekly Bunshun" was done within myself, so I feel that it was a very good timing.
■Reborn long-established stores, each "rewarding"
Fujiwara: Do you have any regrets or things you left behind?
Shintani: No, not at all. Rather, "Weekly Bunshun" should be done by people who have a fresher feeling and who have a strict eye on the world. Human relations are also scrap and build, and in "Weekly Bunshun" we practiced "scandals for close friends", so human relations are inevitably broken. I'm rebuilding it now, and I went to dinner with Prime Minister Suga for the first time in a while (laughs). Have you read "Bungei Shunju" by Mr. Fujiwara?
Fujiwara: No, I will read it from now on (laughs). But maybe it's a magazine that young people never buy. So I'm curious about how to proceed in the future. However, printing is addictive, and once you read it and find it interesting, it becomes a habit, so it would be nice if you could make a good match with the younger generation.
Shintani: Using digital is the easiest approach, isn't it? Originally, "Bungei Shunju" was first published by Kan Kikuchi, a popular writer at the time, but I want to freely say what I want to say, rather than telling the editors and readers. It was born from that. As a place where you can freely send information for yourself and for the writers around you, such as Ryunosuke Akutagawa. The first issue is really fluent and it's a doujinshi, isn't it? Therefore, I would like to go back to that starting point, evolve it to the ultimate, and create a place where I can freely say things while linking digital and magazines.
Fujiwara: Someone is like a curator, and this month's article is interesting, and it seems easy to read if you summarize it.
Shintani: I think Mr. Fujiwara recently had a lot of work to renovate or update products from well-established overseas brands. Is that kind of work fun?
Fujiwara: Working with a long-established brand is rewarding or rewarding, isn't it? However, I try not to be selfish as much as possible and try to do what I can do within that framework.
Shintani: The approach is craftsmanship, isn't it? It is said that after carefully grasping the request of the other party, it will be dropped in a suitable place. Still, the Loro Piana sweater I'm wearing today is full of holes (laughs). In the end, it can only be called a sense.
Fujiwara: Sweaters with holes are normal even if you do it with GAP, but it makes sense because you do it with Loro Piana. It's interesting to find such a good salt plum.
Shintani: For me, I feel that the steering of "Bungei Shunju", which celebrated its 100th anniversary, is very rewarding and heavy. Originally called a national magazine, I would like to work on a project that faces the country of Japan head-on. For example, 2022 is the 100th anniversary of the founding of Zenkoku Suiheisha, the predecessor of the Buraku Liberation League, and the Japanese Communist Party. In addition, it is not the 100th anniversary, but Soka Gakkai (founded in 1930). Organizations with a long history all have various problems, such as service fatigue, so I would like to actively feature special features that shed light on such issues.
■「Bungei Shunju ",100th anniversaryWeight and new challenge
-What would you do if Hiroshi had an offer to produce or collaborate from "Bungei Shunju"?
Fujiwara: It would be interesting if you could capture the younger generation. For example, I wonder if there is a way to make the cover a photo or contemporary art.
-How about the logo?
Fujiwara: You don't mess with the logo.
Shintani: I also have no option to mess with the logo (laughs). From this year, I am asking Japanese painter Yuji Murakami for the cover. Takashi Murakami's younger brother who draws Ultraman and Kamen Rider with tremendous technology (laughs).
Fujiwara: Is that so. But it doesn't look very different.
Shintani: After all, it may be the weight of this signboard, or the power. It's a medium with a history of 100 years, so it's difficult to change it completely, and there's no need to change that much.
Fujiwara: To change the story, Mr. Shintani, did you see the drama "Sinking in Japan" that you were doing last year? Seeing that, I thought that bureaucracy was a really hard job. Isn't it impossible for me to announce that Japan will sink? If it doesn't sink, that's a big deal. That's why I respected the bureaucrats who had to decide and put into action (laughs).
Shintani: I saw. Even though bureaucrats do such a hard job, their salaries are extremely cheap. It was abused by politicians all night, and when it went down, it was beaten. Under such circumstances, it is becoming difficult for excellent human resources to gather, and the quality of the nation will naturally decline as it is.
Fujiwara: I think so too. I hope a lot of people like bureaucratic heroes will appear.
Shintani: In the November issue of last year, Secretary-General Koji Yano, the head of the Ministry of Finance, wrote a dissertation under his real name. It sold very well with the sensational content that "If you continue to disperse as it is, the finances of this country will collapse." This "Yano dissertation" is very risky to him, as the bureaucrats of "The Sinking of Japan" did. But as the person in charge of the national vault, he says that this is not good at risk, so that opinion is of course worthy of listening. This made Sanae Takaichi and Shinzo Abe angry, but I think it was meaningful, including the criticism. That kind of pros and cons caused the divided discourses to collide.
-It was an opportunity to draw attention to your finances.
Shintani: Therefore, recently, the attention of "Bungei Shunju" has been increasing dramatically in the Nagatacho area, and through contents such as Sanae Takaichi's declaration of being elected president, Tsai Ing-wen's interview with Taiwanese president, and Akio Toyoda's independent interview. There is a response that the image of "a place to make a special transmission" is gradually spreading.
Fujiwara: We would be interested in reading it, but it's hard to convey to the generations below. That's a problem, isn't it?
Shintani: I agree. Therefore, for me, being interviewed like today is part of a steady activity to convey the fun of "Bungei Shunju".
Fujiwara: Readers of the Ring of Colour will never read it. You might think, "Is it a secondhand book?" (Laughs). For me, I would like to read articles that seem to be known but not understood, such as "Beyond crypto assets".
■What Hiroshi Fujiwara felt when he entered the NFT market
Shintani: That is the theme, isn't it? That is why Mr. Fujiwara has also entered the NFT marketplace as "FRGMT RZM NFT".
Fujiwara: When I started, I didn't even call it NFT yet. Media artist Daito Manabe has been trying to sell art works using blockchain for a long time, and he started by being invited by that. So, although the first approach may be a little different from what everyone says about NFT, the last work was finally made after exploring. But I still don't understand at all.
Shintani: Even the person doing it (laughs). Recently, the pictures drawn by junior high school students have become very expensive.
Fujiwara: However, I recently learned that something suitable in a sense is good. After all, if it is collectable, it will not be distributed from there. I want to have it myself. I bought it properly, but I got tired of it, so I sold it, and if I didn't buy it again, it wouldn't be distributed.
Shintani: What made me most angry when I was doing "Weekly Bunshun" was that when the scoops we sent out spread more and more, there were people who used that information for free to do business. It's coming. It would be nice if we could use the blockchain mechanism to tag the information so that money would come in every time it spreads, but that's a long way off.
Fujiwara: On the contrary, it is difficult because there is a possibility that the free scoop information will be further promoted by the technology.
Shintani: surely. Is it pure interest as a creator that Mr. Fujiwara entered NFT?
Fujiwara: I agree. I don't have a wallet yet and I haven't bought anything. Everyone around me says that Metaverse is next to NFT, and I'm interested in it, but they are different. It's easy for NFTs to go to the production side, but Metaverse only buys the land, so it's hard for the production side to get involved. Who buys the land sooner, but it's quite risky, isn't it? Facebook is also investing in the Metaverse now, but ethically they don't think they will sell the land. There is still no certainty that the value of NFTs will rise steadily.
Shintani: Wow. I can't keep up with it at all because I'm a person who believes in something that is real, such as being touched or beaten (laughs).
Fujiwara: For now, it's just a play for the wealthy. But now, even junior high school students think that there are things like trying to put New Year's gifts in the wallet or buying 0.001 Bitcoin.
Shintani: It's such an era, isn't it?
Fujiwara: Money itself was a boom in the days of young entrepreneurs in the 1990s. Now that the times have gone around again, it has become a financial trend. Let's buy Bitcoin rather than clothes.
Shintani: On the other hand, there is a world view where LP records are selling stupidly, and it is in such an era that the value of objects may be re-recognized. But for me, this is enough convenience and speed, but I wonder if the world is going ahead.
Fujiwara: Mr. Shintani, do you see the receipt of amazon every month?
Shintani: No, I wonder if I can see it.
Fujiwara: That's right. Isn't it "amazon free school"?
Shintani: No, it's not free, but I certainly bought it without thinking (laughs).
Fujiwara: It's a bit of a wealthy way of saying, but amazon is a free feeling. Suica and Uber all have that kind of feeling.
Shintani: I'm not a wealthy person, but it's a necessary expense (laughs). Does Mr. Fujiwara spend cash?
Fujiwara: I rarely use it.
Shintani: Then what about a bookstore?
Fujiwara: I go there once in a while, but really to kill time. I also read books on my Kindle as much as possible.
Shintani: I may be old-fashioned, but I'm a fan of books. That is why I want to appeal the value of the product "Bungei Shunju". I want to be thick and heavy, but it feels good to have something cool.
Fujiwara: I don't know if I feel that way now, but in the old days when I went to a cafe in the morning in New York or London, everyone was reading the newspaper and it looked very fashionable. The newspaper is thick over there, and there are suggestions for style, so you can see clothes there. I yearn for that.
Shintani: Since there is a plus α in the information, it is worth picking up as a product. In that sense, The New Yorker magazine is conscious. It also means that paper and digital are working well in both directions.
Fujiwara: It would be nice if the things shown here could be used as a material for us to talk with our friends. I think the world of fashion conglomerates like "GUCCI" and the LVMH group that we are doing in the movie is also interesting. It's not fun to do it in a specialized magazine, and I think it would be fun to read that in "Bungei Shunju". It also means that there is a perforated knit in Loro Piana, but I think there are still such fields.
Shintani: I'm happy with that. Please give me the information. No, please write it (laughs). You'll love non-fiction, so even on the book review page.
■ Should the editor-in-chief be Kuroko in this era?
-In recent years, both the media and individuals have been forced to steer as a brand, but what do you think about being in the forefront of that?
Shintani: That's an important decision, isn't it?
Fujiwara: I basically don't like YouTube or videos. Especially when you talk about yourself. But which one is better?
Shintani: On a case-by-case basis, I came to the decision to "get out." What I felt while doing "Weekly Bunshun" was the disadvantage of not appearing. In short, it's a criticism such as "running away" or "I'm stepping into people's privacy without showing up." I used to think that the editor-in-chief is a salaryman who has a change, and I thought it would be better not to stand too much, but now I have changed my mind a little. I wonder if it's time to reach readers by saying, "Because it's a magazine I make with this idea, I won't run away or hide."
Fujiwara: Certainly, magazines like "Bungei Shunju" and "GQ" should have the editor-in-chief's face, but even if you do the same thing in a magazine where talents gather, it will be an obstacle, and what is the main Is it set in?
Shintani: that's right. An editor is like a gyoji. Sumo wrestlers are called from the left and right, and the editor and editor-in-chief do the sumo wrestlers. Sumo is the main character to the last, but we have to play the role of matchmaking and making the effort interesting. So I'm grateful to hear a lot of talk these days, but I refuse to some extent because it gets cold at the moment when it looks like a mere boss wants to appear (laughs). Mr. Fujiwara has already turned down a lot, right?
■ Do not do work where you can see the national flagAnarchist pride
Fujiwara: Well that's right.
Shintani: What is the percentage of refusal?
Fujiwara: No, not so much. Do you think that even if you ask, you will be refused? However, there are cases where people who can't read the air ask for it, and it seems interesting, so I'll accept it.
Shintani: Isn't this the case with this conversation (laughs)? For example, what about requests related to the nation?
Fujiwara: I don't do that.
Shintani: Does that mean you have been turned down?
Fujiwara: I agree. Requests that the national flag can be seen and hidden will be refused.
Shintani: For example, this Olympics?
Fujiwara: ……It was there. I can't say specifically.
Shintani: That's a scoop (laughs).
-By the way, how did you see the Olympics last year?
Fujiwara: I basically didn't watch it.
Shintani: I struck a scoop on the opening ceremony, close to the parties involved. That's why I wanted to see MIKIKO's version of the "phantom opening ceremony". The scoop was strongly protested by Seiko Hashimoto, chairman of the Organizing Committee, and was forced to suspend sales and collect it. Is an important role for the media and responds to the people's right to know. " Magazines sold well, and I was able to show Bunshun's attitude.
■ 2021 "Brand Theory" Dialogue
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